…The page that I think people will start turning more often. Yea, you know the one. GNU/Linux.
Indeed, faithful readers, I have installed GNU/Linux (Ubuntu Dist) on my shiny new Dell XPS M1210 on a second partition (to dual-boot of course) and wow, I am happy with it. I am now starting to question why developers just stop supporting windows. Like, seriously. Once you go Linux, you don’t go back. Well, in my case I have to. But thats because of lots of reasons. ANYWAYS, yea… For all ye linux dudes, I understand now. For all ye, windows or mac guys, I seriously recommend dual-booting at the minimum. A fun way to start is getting a live-cd of a GNU/Linux distribution such as Ubuntu. The reason for this is that you can boot off the CD without having to install anything or do anything at all. Its actually surprisingly fast too. Then once you boot up and realize how awesome GNU/Linux is you can then click “install” right there. I do recommend Ubuntu, mainly because it has a awesome live-CD and is sorta medium difficulty, meaning a newb can use it and be ok, but it will also appeal to people like me: lots of computer experience, but minimum GNU/Linux experience. I am sure some of the crazier GNU/Linux distributions would appeal to those linux-geeks.
Update: Indeed, as I was sitting down after writing this post I realized that I forgot to mention THE ONE GREATEST THING ABOUT GNU/LINUX THAT YOU NEED TO KNOW… The package manager. What is that you say? Ill tell you. The package manager manages packages… In the sense that if you want that shiny new drawing program like Inkscape or that really awesome game thats made for linux (there are some cool ones… like that old tron game… cept its better… or a tank game… yea, those ones rock.) all you need to do is boot up the package manager program… And type search. Since everything (almost everything…) on GNU/Linux is released as opensource (free) once you have ticked everything you want in the packagemanager… The only thing left is to click install (or apply in some package manager’s cases)… Yes its just that easy. Its especially awesome if you installing a server like apache, or mysql because it automagically configures everything to work on your system right away. So 5 mins after you click install your up and running with your own website! Sweet eh? And then… GNU/Linux had to make something equally as awesome… The automatic updates. Unlike what you windows and mac users are used to… Automatic Updates for GNU/Linux doesn’t just update your operating system, or your various microsoft/apple programs (itunes, microsoft office)… It updates EVERY SINGLE FREEKING PROGRAM THAT IS REGISTERED WITH IT. I say registered because if you manually install something, sometimes it doesn’t get a auto-update to go with it. But everything in the package manager does… So always remember to check the PM before you decide to take on the compilin’.
Well… Thats the start of my linux experience… I think you should start yours. Here are some of your options:
- http://distrowatch.com/ - A good place to find GNU/Linux distrubutions
- http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/ - See URL
- http://www.ubuntu.com/ - I recommend starting on this distribution
- http://www.ubuntu.com/download - Download Ubuntu
- https://shipit.ubuntu.com/ - Free Ubuntu CD (free shipping and everything)
- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ - The Ubuntu Wiki (docs)
Do or Do not, there is no try…
Yoda (i think)
Ubuntu? No way. If you really want to go with a Newbie distro, go with Suse. Sure, it’s ridiculous bloatware, sure it’s kind of commercial, but it’s great to really start getting into Linux. Ubuntu is alright, but most of what you hear about it being awesome is just fad-hype. It’s really not that great. Once you get over that first bump, you can find the distro for you (Slackware, Gentoo, Debian, …*BSD?).
If you want a terrific LiveCD, use SLAX. It abandons the whole Debian-Knoppix-Kanotix style that Ubuntu uses for an all around more efficient experience. It’s possible to customize which modules you use, and because it’s loaded in modules, it’s much faster and more efficient than any Debian deriv LiveCDs.
IBloon, congrats on the switch. Honestly, I think you should be fine running a Gentoo install. You might want to practice in a virtual machine first. If, though, you want to be careful, you can use the GUI installation/universal LiveCD/Super Happy Mega Install! CD. It makes the partitioning really easy. DON’T MESS UP PARTITIONING WITH THE CONSOLE GENTOO INSTALL.. You should be fine, and it is really quite amazing how much you learn through that install. MAKE SURE you use the Gentoo install docs. Easily the best install guide I’ve ever seen. It really is a joy to be able to compile everything you want at install, and portage is just… beyond…words…
Let’s see…anything else…use Perl…Ah, yes:
At this time I will clarify that the official name of the operating system is NOT Linux, it is:
GNU/Linux. Linux is the kernel, GNU is everything else.
GNU is the operating system and Linux is its kernel
—RMS
Also, I couldn’t help but notice that you referred to the official Ubuntu wiki as a “wikipedia.” There is no such thing as “a” wikipedia. Wikipedia is a single site that uses a wiki engine. The Ubuntu wiki is simply called “a wiki.”
Oh be quiet micro, everyone has to start somewhere. Yay for Linux (yes, that’s right, Linux because I’m not pedantic). If you like Ubuntu stick with it for as long as you like (or until they stop releasing security fixes for it). Also, if you get the option, use KDE, not GNOME. Even better use XCFE
But anyway, glad you took the plunge. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
Lol, thanks for that last tip, I suppose your right now that I think about it. Anyways, I shall indeed look into other distros, such as Gentoo, but I think I will probably stick with Ubuntu since I am going on a boat around the world and all… I want to have a dist that really wont fuck up at the wrong moment… Something that I am worried a more advanced Dist would do if you know what I mean.
As for my recommendation to start at Ubuntu, the reason I recommend it is because it is NOT as easy as something like Suse. And also because it incorporates some more advanced stuff into it as well. This way a new user would get a challenge, and then a nice medium speed learning curve.
Lol, right I gotta remember that… GNU/Linux… GNU/Linux… GNU/Linux.
All in all, thanks for the help, see, you can be nice, sometimes.
But Suse isn’t necessarily easy, and I would even say that it can be tougher than Ubuntu at times. Also, one major plus, it comes with a LOT of desktop environments. With (K)Ubuntu, you are stuck, especially if you’re a newbie, with Gnome or KDE, which, in my most humble opinion, are some of the most disgusting things to exist on the face of the earth (KDE more than Gnome). I definitely recommend trying something like (Black|Flux|Open)Box or IceWM.
Portage is also the best package management system out there. Easily.
RPM and Yum have got me through every app I’ve needed to compile. And KDE is an awesome desktop environment. It also has Kate which is the best text editor in existance…
1. RPM & Yum are OK, but you also don’t get the advantage of compiling.
2. KDE is the definition of bloatware. It really is ridiculous.
3. Kate is awful. There really is nothing special about it. I can’t imagine anybody who knows how to use a real text editor using it.
Admittedly KDE can be kinda slow, which is why I mainly use XCFE but it’s still a really good and useful desktop environment. Not everything has to be fast to be good. Why not put that awesome processing power computers have nowadays to some good use and stop living in the past. If things get too slow for you (as they did for me while I had fun messing around with KDE to fullest) then just switch. The idea of RPMs is that you don’t have to compile. It’s like in-between compiling from source and running pre-compiled binaries (although most of the time RPMs just contain pre-compiled binaries…)
And Kate is wonderful, I do all my web-designing in it. It can open files straight from FTP and FISH as well as save straight back. It’s got syntax highlighting for nearly every programming language which is really useful. It keeps my tabs which is even more useful. It even has Python specific tabbing (e.g. it will automatically indent the next line after a colon). I can’t see anything wrong with that.
I also use VIM (or VI? I can never remember) if I find myself working in the terminal. Emacs can go to hell.
KDE is just ridiculous in its resource management. It just has so many components that are totally pointless to me, and it shows. To each his own, I guess…
I understand that you might not want to compile everything. I do. I just like it. Yeah.
Kate is nothing special. I can do everything that Kate can do (and so, so much more) with (g)vim. Once again, it’s bloatware. I don’t want to run Qt just to edit a config file. It can be done so much better in vim. There’s really no sort of comparison. And yes, emacs is pretty awful.
Heh yer I get a weird kinda feeling when I see that configure script running I guess… must be a geek thing.
I haven’t actually tried gvim… is it a gui version of vim? Because that would be cool.
gVim is vim gui. Makes it LEAGUES easier. LEAGUES. You can access all the complicated features through gui menus (although it’s still better to learn :commands). Really, a beautiful program. Available for Win32/Linux/Mac?. Mmmmm gvim. Oh, and if it’s still a bit much, and there’s nothing wrong with that, there’s some sort of version called eVim. Dumbed down vim, alot (no offense intended of course) like Kate.
Well I might as well go check it out, means I won’t have to run KDE stuff on XCFE startup which increases the startup time loads T_T
Yeah, Qt is really obnoxious.
Question: Is it possible to run enough of KDE to use Kate while still using GNOME? Like, I really love how I have GNOME setup… But the text-editer is sorta ok… Right now I am using bluefish (part of open office) for html, php, etc… but if there is a better one that would be cool. Give me your recommendations.
Use gVim for text editing. Please, just trust me on this. I swear, you’ll thank me later. I swear it.
As for Kate… If you want to, for some reason, use Kate, yes you can. It’ll just be a pain to run Qt everytime. If you haven’t installed it yet, good luck with that, although I’m sure synaptic/apt-get/whatever you’re using should help you out.
Use gVim. Please. Think of the children.
Lol, ok I want to use gVim… And I have vim installed… So I suppose I just get the gVim source or w/e then compile… Ill figure something out.
Yeah, it’s a common package. It’s really worth investing some time in.
OK, firstly GNOME’s file browser, Nautilus, sucks in comparison to Konqueror. Secondly, all KDE apps run in GNOME and vice versa. Really, you should be using KDE, it’s just as user friendly and has much more features.
As for gVim I think I found a package called vim-X11 which may or may not be it. Needless to say, after installing it I did have an app called gvim (I didn’t check to see if I had it before so vim-X11 could have been something completely different).
However, I’m sure I must have the wrong app here. I recall you (micro) saying that it was a lot better than Kate. However I find I can’t do nearly as much stuff in gVim as I can in Kate.
The first thing that struck me was the god-awful filebrowser. Kate has a sidemenu with all the files and directories in the current directory listed so you can double-click one any time and open it. With gVim you have to open each file separately. Also, with Kate you can easily switch between the files you have opened by clicking them in the document panel. The file browser and document panel are all actually the same panel and can be switched between by using a tab. You can also just hide the panel if it gets too cluttered (which it rarely does). This all comes in extremely useful when managing a web-design project or any project for that matter.
Now for FTP support. Yes gVim has it. But not in any useful way. When you goto File and Open you get that crappy filebrowser I mentioned above. There is no place you can type in the path of the directory you want to enter, instead you have to navigate to it by purely clicking through the directories. Typing the path into the filename area and pressing enter, doesn’t switch the current directory to the one you just typed, instead it just opens it like a regular file in gVim. This is utterly useless when trying to access FTP because there’s no real way to open an FTP file unless you know the full path to the file. You can’t browse the FTP directory either because there’s no way of navigating to it from within that idiotic file browser.
You know Kate’s wonderful filebrowser I mentioned earlier? Well that has a nice bar where you can type the directory you want to view in. So I just type ftp://username@domain.com, type in my password when prompted, wait for a bit and voila, I have a listing of all the files and directories in the one I just typed. Now I can just open any one (or more) of those and start editing. When I’m done I’ll click Save and it will save straight back via FTP.
I’ve got so used to managing my site like that, that gVim actually horrified me. I really can’t work with something like that.
First of all,
Nautilus filebrowser? Same thing for the ftp problem. You don’t need to navigate through menus for something as simple as that.
What’s the problem with vim’s win-splitting?
Sure, kate has a “nice” filebrowser. All they’ve done is GUIfied a terminal for that. In my experience, the syntax highlighting in vim has always been much better than kate’s. You can’t honestly be comparing vim to the default KDE browser? That’s like comparing Mozart with, I don’t know, who do the kids like these days, Coldplay? It seems to me like you haven’t really learned much about using vim. http://www.apmaths.uwo.ca/~xli/vim/vim_tutorial.html
I recommend reading something like that. If you’re serious about an IT related education/career, you will use vim. Alot.
What on earth? Half of my post disappeared. Ah, yes, this engine doesn’t like angle brackets. My previous post was:
Nautilus lessthan Konquerer lessthanlessthanlessthan Terminal
It seems that you’re very concerned about an in-editor filebrowser. I don’t understand why.
:e filename
will open a file for you. You don’t really need a filebrowser. Same thing for the ftp problem. You don’t need to navigate through menus for something as simple as that.
What’s the problem with vim’s win-splitting?
Sure, kate has a “nice” filebrowser. All they’ve done is GUIfied a terminal for that. In my experience, the syntax highlighting in vim has always been much better than kate’s. You can’t honestly be comparing vim to the default KDE browser? That’s like comparing Mozart with, I don’t know, who do the kids like these days, Coldplay? It seems to me like you haven’t really learned much about using vim. http://www.apmaths.uwo.ca/~xli/vim/vim_tutorial.html
I recommend reading something like that. If you’re serious about an IT related education/career, you will use vim. Alot.
Filebrowser = teh shit beacause it requires less typing… is more visual… And less stressful.
Ok… I am thinking about getting KDE… But I would really rather just like use kate in GNOME… I think I will have to try it.
NONONO
Learn to use the terminal
DON’T USE KDE
DON’T USE GNOME
Use something smaller, something better.
Why does nobody ever listen to me?
The issues of Nautilus and Konquerer is completely separate from my comment on Kate and gVim.
I’ll go through an example:
In Kate:
- There’s an apparent error in one of the scripts on my server
- Open up Kate, click the filesystem browser tab on the left
- The current directory path is /home/fyorl so I get a list of all the files and directories in there
- I don’t need those files, I need the ones on my server.
- So I highlight the path and change it to ftp://username@soul-scape.com
- Kate prompts me for a password and I oblige
- Wait about a second and I now have a list of all the files on my server
- I double click the public_html directory (still in the filesystem browser tab in Kate)
- I look down the list and find index.php and double click it
- The contents of the file pop up in the main text editing area all nicely highlighted and I hit F11 to bring up the line numbers
- I find the appropriate line and see it’s being caused by a function that was included with functions.php
- I slap my forehead, whoever reported the error obviously didn’t read the message properly.
- I just double click functions.php from the panel to the left which is still open and still connected via FTP to my server.
- The contents appear and I find the appropritate function. Whoops, looks like it needs an extra parameter to be passed to it.
- I could just double click index.php in the filesystem browser to the left if I wanted but seeing as Kate has already opened it, it’ll be in Documents tab. So I click the tab and click index.php.
- I add the extra argument to the function call and save it. Kate saves straight back to my server.
- I refresh index.php in Firefox and see the error’s fixed.
Now for gVim:
- There’s an apparent error in one of the scripts on my server
- I open up gVim. Looks like there’s no side panels, oh well, I should only be working with one file. It won’t matter
- I click the open button and am presented with some sort of file browser.
- All I’ve got is a drop-down menu with /home/fyorl /home and / in it and nowhere to type the full path to my server into
- Wait, I think I’ve seen something like this before, if I just type the path into the ‘Selection’ line it should change the directory to the one I typed.
- So I type ftp://username@soul-scape.com and hit enter
- I get prompted with a password (this looks promising) so I type it in and hit enter
- I get a blank file…
- Great. So there’s no way for me to type the path in, I now have to remember the whole ftp path. Well luckily I’ve just remembered.
- So I click open and type ftp://username@soul-scape.com/public_html/index.php and hit enter
- Woohoo! I got a file with some nice pink highlighting which looks great against that white background. Seriously.
- No line numbers though. Luckily it’s a small file and I find the problem. Damn I need to access functions.php
- So I click open and it’s still in my home directory rather than the FTP one, oh well I type the full path in again ftp://username@soul-scape.com/public_html/functions.php and find the source of the error. The extra parameter.
- Damn I’ve got to go back to index.php… ooo there’s a buffers menu which seems to have index.php listed. Maybe I won’t have to type in the full path in that retarded file browser again.
- So I click it and what’s this? Buffer x does not exist… Onto plan B then…
- So I finally get to index.php through that file browser and make the necessary changes. Which also get saved straight back via FTP. How nice.
Well wasn’t that tedious? I may post a step-by-step guide with screenshots next because I still don’t think I explained that very well.
Your big problem seems to be that you need to learn how to…do stuff. Don’t depend on the GUI so much. You’re using Linux, not Windows. Most of your complaints are simply instances of you not knowing how to use the app.
From what you posted,it seems like the problem is yours, not gVim’s. Don’t deride the program if you don’t know how to use it.
If what you’re looking for in a text editor is a memory hog with some sort of filemanager, go ahead, use the default KDE editor. If you want to get serious about UNIX, use vim.
If Kate helps me save time and allows me to manage my projects effectively. It’s worth the ‘memory-hogging’. GUIs do make things easier, if I’m working in the terminal for whatever reason then I won’t suddenly switch to Kate to edit a file, I’ll just vi it. But if I’m working on a particularly large programming project then I will use Kate which is easy to use and very powerful.
I still don’t understand how Kate is any easier or especially more powerful than vim.
Because of the reasons I mentioned above. Seamless FTP and FISH support to make managing lots of files incredibly easy. As well as other useful features such as the ability to turn off word wrap, add line numbers etc.
All of which are in Vim…
How can you turn off word wrap without a horizontal scrollbar? That would be impractical. Also, I couldn’t find any options for turning on line numbers. If it does exist it should be easily accessibly like in Kate with F11. Finally, vim’s support for FTP is nothing compared to Kate’s where you can actually browse through the FTP directory to find the file you want to edit as well as switching between previously opened files with ease. In vim you have to know the full path of the file you want to edit.
For line numbering:
:set number
I’m sorry if that’s not “easily accessible” enough for you. Not only that, but you can auto-jump to line number n with
:n
It’s that simple.
For text wrapping
:set wrap “This will wrap it
:set nowrap “No more wrapping
If you want to make it permenant, just put in the *rc file.
You can scroll in may ways, using the keyboard.
Really, you shouldn’t need to be using your text editor to browser directories. That’s what browsers/terminals are for. You should also already know the path of the file you’re editing, I can’t see that being too much of a problem. After all, you can quickly look it up with a terminal, or even a web browser. It’s the UNIX way.
http://bullium.com/support/vim.html
That’s a great site, by the way, along with the vi Wikibook.
By the way, IBloon, I noticed that you were somewhat at a loss for Linux games. Try Tremulous. Really cool bughunt Aliens style game. All FSW too.
Sweet another game, Ill check it out.
In other news… I dont want to get in this too much… But seriously micro… I think your problem is that you just have a really old and crappy problem. Because of this I understand why you prefer strait code and terminal editing and vim instead of a “memory-hogging” gui… But seriously man, get into the now. My laptop thats running it can run kate (i got it, and yes… it is the best), games, gnome with parts of kde, and a bunch of other processes. I was worried that having a mysql and apache server running would take up too much system resources… But then I realized that I was being a micro-nerd (^_^). So I just leave them running… And wow, I don’t have any trouble.
So, my recommendation to you is upgrade. Everything.
I looked at vim, and gvim and all that jazz. Micro, try kate. Actually, delete vim. Thats better.
You might wanna check out Battle for Wesnoth at wesnoth.org if you like Strategy games. It compiles from source fine but there are loads of pre-compiled binaries for various distros floating around if you don’t want the latest development release.
micro, computers are getting faster. Programs are made to take advantage of that. There’s nothing wrong with ‘memory-hogging’ if you’ve got bucketloads to spare. I can run BG2 through Cedega in one session of X as well as Kate, Firefox, Thunderbird and Mplayer in another session of X without getting any slowdown whatsoever. This is on a 1.8GHz laptop.
A computer is a tool. It doesn’t have feelings. It doesn’t go on strike because you’re making it work hard. Also, it won’t make you breakfast in bed if you be nice to it and let it do nothing all day while you fiddle around in outdated programs. They don’t save you time, but hey, they save the computer memory. What’s more important?
Very nice rebuttal Fyorl… And to await Micro’s reply.
I am in the process of checking that out. I am not a HUGE fan of strat games… but you never know.
I really like the artwork. And I really like the idea that someone would go to the effort of making it all and then put it up for free
…IBloon…Did you just call vim decrepit? YOU FAIL LINUX. NO, YOU DON’T FAIL LINUX. YOU FAIL UNIX You’re honestly comparing kate, the default KDE editor, to VIM in terms of power? That’s like comparing me to a bulldozer. This…I’m… at a loss for words…this…I…can’t….AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH klxcg brdxj,s;opefdim’;orcm
I honestly can’t describe….how ignorant….vim…kate…AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I’m serious, I am visibly shaking. More than usual. I can’t….just…why? why? why? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I JUST STABBED THE BACK OF MY HAND WITH A FORK
IBloon,
Kate is an upgrade to vim?
No offense, but that is the most ignorant thing related to Linux that I have ever heard. Really, the most.
Fyorl agrees with me. And plus, it isn’t ignorant. We have backed up our side with why we think kate is better, and you have done the same. Personally I think that the evidence points completely to kate. Vim doesn’t even come close. Either your bad at showing its high-points… or it doesn’t have any.
In other news, your comments are hilarious. I am considering getting you on the bloon… All I need to do is say something like vim sucks… And humor results.
Vim … sucks? Oh god, the pain, the misery, the ignorance. THIS IS CAUSING ME PHYSICAL PAIN. I AM SWEATING AND SHAKING.
See if someone was studying psychology, they’d just have to read this blog for all the analytical material they’d ever need…
It should be “See, if”
Yes, it should be. But the world does not cater for pedants…
You should never start your sentence with a conjunction. You should just join them together to make:
Yes, it should be, but the world does not cater for pedants…
But that wouldn’t have created the desired effect. See, I did it again.
The word you’re looking for is “however.”
Using ‘but’ in that context is perfectly valid.
No, it is not.
“See if someone was studying psychology, they’d just have to read this blog for all the analytical material they’d ever need…”
Thats great Fyorl… And now that I think about it, sooo very true.
boo for grammer… Mr. Micro the grammer nazi…
AAAH First of all, it should be “That’s great.” The And shouldn’t be capitalized, because that should only be one sentence. “boo” should be capitalized. “nazi” should be capitalized. Then of course, IT’S SPELLED GRAMMAR, NOT GRAMMER.
¬_¬
*pumps fist* Challenge 1 completed… Anger Micro.
micrO, its perfectly, alright. The Grammer, angel wont come and get u.
AH STOP IT. I don’t think you understand the extent of damage that grammatical mistakes cause me. It’s almost as bad as when somebody leaves the door only HALF closed, with the little thing half depressed and you have to jump and run an SLAM it shut.
Micro, it’s perfectly alright. The Grammar Angel won’t come and get you.
Lol… I gotta say micro, I agree with you on the door thing… I hate when people leave doors half closed, or most especially the microwave door open. OMG CLOSE IT DAMMIT!
The worst is when the mechanism is half engaged. Then you have to run across the room and slam into it.
Lol… Too True.
I have e-mailed you.
I have replied. Now I am waiting for Random.
I have also emailed you. On a different note, I am quite amused by Micro’s grammar craze. On a third note, please start posting comments. I’ve been waiting for hours for someone to reply to my latest ones. Micro was much more punctual.
Lol, sorry random…
Yea Micro is sorta crazy about that stuff…
haha i miss him already
..not
haha
Haha… Meh, everyone misses micro in his own way. We don’t have a strong sense of negative energy unless he is here.
You all bother me.
Lol, thats good.